{"id":3397,"date":"2025-06-13T15:59:28","date_gmt":"2025-06-13T15:59:28","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/?p=3397"},"modified":"2025-10-29T07:24:02","modified_gmt":"2025-10-29T07:24:02","slug":"seo-developer-divide","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/seo-developer-divide-3397\/","title":{"rendered":"Search Off The Record Discusses SEO-Developer Divide"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>In Google\u2019s new episode of its official podcast \u201cSearch Off The Record\u201d the spotlight shifts to the often unspoken cultural divide between developers and SEO professionals.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>In the insightful conversation, Gary Illyes and Martin Splitt from the Google Search Relations team open up about the real-world challenges, misperceptions and sometimes awkward misalignments between SEO and development teams.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>So, what are the biggest misunderstandings between SEOs and developers and what does Google really think about bridging this gap?<\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"What SEOs should know about devs\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/MaTSHZnnQOw?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<div id=\"ez-toc-container\" class=\"ez-toc-v2_0_83 counter-hierarchy ez-toc-counter ez-toc-transparent ez-toc-container-direction\">\n<div class=\"ez-toc-title-container\">\n<p class=\"ez-toc-title\" style=\"cursor:inherit\"><\/p>\n<span class=\"ez-toc-title-toggle\"><\/span><\/div>\n<nav><ul class='ez-toc-list ez-toc-list-level-1 ' ><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-1\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/seo-developer-divide-3397\/#developer-vs-seo-not-enemies-but-misunderstood-partners\" >Developer vs SEO- Not Enemies, But Misunderstood Partners<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-2\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/seo-developer-divide-3397\/#why-googles-javascript-expert-warns-seos-about-context-and-misused-advice\" >Why Google\u2019s JavaScript Expert Warns SEOs About Context and Misused Advice<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-3\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/seo-developer-divide-3397\/#the-challenge-of-giving-public-advice-in-seo-forums\" >The Challenge of Giving Public Advice in SEO Forums<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-4\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/seo-developer-divide-3397\/#why-seos-must-learn-developer-fundamentals\" >Why SEOs Must Learn Developer Fundamentals<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/seo-developer-divide-3397\/#the-struggle-of-communication-across-technical-seos-vs-developers\" >The Struggle of Communication Across Technical SEOs vs Developers<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-6\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/seo-developer-divide-3397\/#why-google-doesnt-share-slides-why-you-shouldnt-share-advice-without-context\" >Why Google Doesn\u2019t Share Slides &amp; Why You Shouldn\u2019t Share Advice Without Context\u00a0<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-7\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/seo-developer-divide-3397\/#-why-even-google-cant-give-straight-answers-to-%e2%80%9cit-depends%e2%80%9d-dilemma\" >\u00a0Why Even Google Can\u2019t Give Straight Answers to \u201cIt Depends\u201d Dilemma<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-8\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/seo-developer-divide-3397\/#how-can-seos-improve-dev-collaboration\" >How Can SEOs Improve Dev Collaboration?<\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/nav><\/div>\n<h2><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"developer-vs-seo-not-enemies-but-misunderstood-partners\"><\/span><b>Developer vs SEO- Not Enemies, But Misunderstood Partners<\/b><span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h2>\n<p>\u201cI\u2019m putting myself in between the two sides. It feels like there\u2019s a bit of a divide between developers and SEOs.\u201d \u2013 Martin Splitt\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>One of the most important discussions in the episode centers around the tension between developers and SEOs, two roles that share the same digital goals but rarely speak the same technical language.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Martin, a developer himself, now advocates SEO best practices to a technically-savvy dev community.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Yet, he notes how many developers remain skeptical of SEO as a discipline and seeing it as ambiguous or marketing-oriented.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u201cHe\u2019s a developer, he\u2019s one of us\u2026 but now he talks about this weird, snake-oily kind of thing,\u201d says Martin, mimicking the typical dev reaction to SEO suggestions.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>This quote sums up a major hurdle that SEOs often approach developers with solutions that sound vague, lack technical clarity or don&#8217;t consider engineering constraints.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>The result? A trust gap.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>The solution? Technical SEO implication.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>SEOs need to frame their requests within dev-friendly logic e.g., reducing render-blocking scripts because it lowers Time to Interactive (TTI) not just because &#8220;Google wants speed.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<h2><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"why-googles-javascript-expert-warns-seos-about-context-and-misused-advice\"><\/span><b>Why Google\u2019s JavaScript Expert Warns SEOs About Context and Misused Advice<\/b><span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h2>\n<p>\u201cYou know me as the JavaScript guy at Google.\u201d \u2013 Martin Splitt\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Martin\u2019s reputation in the industry is built on making JavaScript rendering more accessible for SEOs. But in the episode, he cautions against taking his own quotes out of context. He references a slide he once showed at Tech SEO Summit:\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u201cDon\u2019t use JavaScript.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u2013 (But he immediately adds) \u201cThere\u2019s context missing here.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Why does this matter? Without context, advice like &#8220;avoid JavaScript&#8221; can be dangerously misleading. In reality, Martin was explaining that if a function does not need JavaScript, use HTML\/CSS instead. This improves crawlability, rendering speed and accessibility.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>One of the examples we can take from this situation is that Googlebot uses Chrome-based rendering, which can take days post-crawl to render JavaScript-heavy pages. If JavaScript controls critical content or links, there is a risk of it being delayed or ignored in indexing.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Thus, SEOs must understand when and where JavaScript is helping or hurting SEO performance and communicate the same clearly to developers.\u00a0<\/p>\n<h2><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"the-challenge-of-giving-public-advice-in-seo-forums\"><\/span><b>The Challenge of Giving Public Advice in SEO Forums<\/b><span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h2>\n<p>\u201cThe problem is when someone hears our response, takes it out of context, and applies it to an entirely different case.\u201d \u2013 Martin<\/p>\n<p>Gary and Martin explore a key challenge: SEO advice and especially from Googlers, often gets generalized or misapplied.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>For example, they mention scenarios where a Googler gives an answer tailored to one use case (say, a large eCommerce site in a multilingual setting but that response gets repeated by consultants working with local blogs or government sites and leads to incorrect implementations.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u201cSomeone else might listen\u2026 whose client might have the opposite needs\u2026 and that might actually be harmful,\u201d Martin explains.<\/p>\n<p>So what is the actionable insight? When SEOs hear advice (from Google or otherwise), they must:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">Ask: What context does this apply to?<\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">Validate: Is this applicable to my tech stack and content model?<\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">Document: Can I explain this recommendation with technical logic?\u00a0<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"why-seos-must-learn-developer-fundamentals\"><\/span><b>Why SEOs Must Learn Developer Fundamentals<\/b><span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h2>\n<p>\u201cTo optimize a system deeply, you must understand some of the characteristics of that system.\u201d \u2013 Martin<\/p>\n<p>Martin makes a crucial point: SEOs do not need to become developers but they need dev literacy. Understanding HTTP protocols, headers, caching behavior or how HTML interacts with JS can save teams hours and prevent costly errors.<\/p>\n<p>Gary adds to this with a painful real-world example:\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u201cA large agency installed a random calendar plugin\u2026 and we discovered 100 million new URLs.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>What happened? That plugin generated infinite dynamic URLs. As a result, Googlebot crawled millions of unnecessary pages, wasting crawl budget and skewing analytics. The agency blamed Google but it was a lack of technical foresight that triggered the disaster.<\/p>\n<p>Technical lesson: Understand how plugins, JavaScript and dynamic parameters can affect:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">Crawl Budget<\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">Canonicalization<\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">URL Discovery<\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">Site Performance<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"the-struggle-of-communication-across-technical-seos-vs-developers\"><\/span><b>The Struggle of Communication Across Technical SEOs vs Developers<\/b><span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h2>\n<p>\u201cSlides without context are useless.\u201d \u2013 Martin Splitt<\/p>\n<p>Martin and Gary emphasize that communication, not just knowledge, is what breaks or builds SEO results. The tension comes from SEOs wanting action and developers needing clarity.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Martin shares how difficult it is to speak to audiences with diverse agendas and understandings. A dev audience may focus on site speed and performance. SEOs may push for structured data or keyword-rich content. Unless there is mutual context, no one wins.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cSometimes people flex technical knowledge\u2026 and it prevents me from helping them.\u201d \u2013 Martin\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>This highlights another overlooked issue: false confidence in SEO forums. When someone pretends to understand dev concepts they actually don&#8217;t, they create friction. Worse, they block learning.\u00a0<\/p>\n<h2><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"why-google-doesnt-share-slides-why-you-shouldnt-share-advice-without-context\"><\/span><b>Why Google Doesn\u2019t Share Slides &amp; Why You Shouldn\u2019t Share Advice Without Context\u00a0<\/b><span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h2>\n<p>\u201cThat\u2019s why we don\u2019t share our slides.\u201d \u2013 Gary<\/p>\n<p>Gary and Martin explain that slides especially from Google talks can easily be misunderstood if detached from speaker narration. This underscores a broader point:<\/p>\n<p>SEO is context-sensitive. One-size-fits-all advice often causes harm.\u00a0<\/p>\n<h2><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"-why-even-google-cant-give-straight-answers-to-%e2%80%9cit-depends%e2%80%9d-dilemma\"><\/span><b>\u00a0Why Even Google Can\u2019t Give Straight Answers to \u201cIt Depends\u201d Dilemma<\/b><span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h2>\n<p>\u201cMaybe we should stop saying &#8216;It depends\u2019\u2026 and actually explain what it depends on.\u201d \u2013 Gary\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>The conversation moves toward one of SEO&#8217;s most mocked phrases: It depends. While it is true that every site is different and the Googlers acknowledge that relying on vague language causes frustration.<\/p>\n<p>Instead, they recommend offering dependencies and scenarios:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">Instead of \u201cAvoid JavaScript,\u201d say: \u201cAvoid it when the content is static and does not require client-side interactivity.\u201d<\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">Instead of \u201cImprove performance,\u201d say: \u201cReduce CLS and LCP by lazy-loading non-critical images and avoiding layout shifts.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>This move toward specificity helps both developers and SEOs execute better strategies<\/p>\n<h2><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"how-can-seos-improve-dev-collaboration\"><\/span><b>How Can SEOs Improve Dev Collaboration?<\/b><span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h2>\n<p>Here are a few actionable insights directly implied in the episode:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><b>Learn enough technical basics to speak dev language<\/b>.\u00a0<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Know how server-side vs client-side rendering works. Understand what DNS, CDN and header responses mean.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><b>Provide context when making SEO requests.<\/b>\u00a0<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Instead of \u201cplease add structured data,\u201d explain: Structured data helps Google better understand our product catalog. It improves rich snippets and CTR by 30%+.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><b>Avoid blanket statements<\/b>.\u00a0<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>SEO advice should always include: &#8220;if applicable,&#8221; &#8220;depending on your CMS&#8221; or &#8220;within this server architecture.&#8221;<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><b>Don\u2019t pretend to know everything<\/b>.\u00a0<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>As Martin puts it: \u201cIt\u2019s OK not to know. It is dangerous to think you know and block better understanding.<\/p>\n<p><b>Bridging the Gap Requires Empathy and Precision<\/b><\/p>\n<p>\u201cEveryone has an agenda. Ours is building the best search engine.\u201d \u2013 Martin<\/p>\n<p>The conversation ends on a philosophical note. Yes, Google has goals to make the web faster, accessible and useful. Yes, SEOs have their own traffic, visibility and rankings. But the only way forward is to collaborate, not confront.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cBehind the advice are real people. And sometimes, we are just trying to make the web a little bit better.\u201d \u2013 Martin Splitt <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In Google\u2019s new episode of its official podcast \u201cSearch Off The Record\u201d the spotlight shifts to the often unspoken cultural divide between developers and SEO professionals.\u00a0 In the insightful conversation, Gary Illyes and Martin Splitt from the Google Search Relations team open up about the real-world challenges, misperceptions and sometimes awkward misalignments between SEO and [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3397","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-seo"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Search Off The Record Discusses SEO-Developer Divide - Stan Ventures<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Learn how to bridge communication gaps, provide context for SEO advice, and why developer fundamentals are crucial for SEO success.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/seo-developer-divide-3397\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Search Off The Record Discusses SEO-Developer Divide - Stan Ventures\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Learn how to bridge communication gaps, provide context for SEO advice, and why developer fundamentals are crucial for SEO success.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.stanventures.com\/news\/seo-developer-divide-3397\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Stan Ventures\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/StanVentures\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2025-06-13T15:59:28+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2025-10-29T07:24:02+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dileep Thekkethil\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@dthekkethil\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@stanventures\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dileep Thekkethil\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"6 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.stanventures.com\\\/news\\\/seo-developer-divide-3397\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.stanventures.com\\\/news\\\/seo-developer-divide-3397\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Dileep Thekkethil\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.stanventures.com\\\/news\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/87d00ff18daf9650e7c925ae4bf86efb\"},\"headline\":\"Search Off The Record Discusses SEO-Developer Divide\",\"datePublished\":\"2025-06-13T15:59:28+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2025-10-29T07:24:02+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.stanventures.com\\\/news\\\/seo-developer-divide-3397\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":1249,\"commentCount\":0,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.stanventures.com\\\/news\\\/#organization\"},\"articleSection\":[\"SEO\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/www.stanventures.com\\\/news\\\/seo-developer-divide-3397\\\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.stanventures.com\\\/news\\\/seo-developer-divide-3397\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.stanventures.com\\\/news\\\/seo-developer-divide-3397\\\/\",\"name\":\"Search Off The Record Discusses SEO-Developer Divide - 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